What's wrong with Ginebra... PART 2!

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What's wrong with Ginebra... PART 2!

Post by MR. FAST on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:45 am

so here i am again trying to dissect what's wrong with our beloved team. sorry, for the title, alam ko may isang thread na na ganito ang title (which, coincidentally was started by me), kaya lang mas okay kasi kung ito yung gagamitin ko na title eh, so bear with me everyone, and mods as well.

okay so quick recap. after 2 come from behind wins wherein Jay Jay and Mark starred, they are bow back in the bench and not soon afterwards, we got 2 straight losses, including a blow out by TNT. Mark Caguioa then went on and vented his frustrations about the team, the rotation and everything wrong about Ginebra, with the coaching staff shrugging it off in another interview.

so here we are, at this very moment, the team in shambles, on shaky ground.

if you think about it, this team SHOULD not be performing as badly as this. on paper, we are actually a pretty good team. we are two players deep in each spot, we have a cadre of guards and wing men that is the envy of other teams, and we boast a front line that can and should match up well with other teams. we have the talent, the coaching pedigree, the championship experience. so why in god's green earth are we performing so poorly?

Jason Webb said in FTW that Ginebra plays without passion, and without a sense of urgency. he stopped short of saying Ginebra is playing without a purpose. and i agree with him. he said this is why Ginebra is losing, why Ginebra is not performing well because it somehow lost it's passion.

Mark Caguioa griped about the coaching staff benching him and Jay Jay, and the team is losing because of it. he stated that they were responsible for the two wins they had (which was true), but the coaching staff shrugged it off, and opted to play the young guns rather than the vets. it's the classic retool-rebuild argument we are seeing here.

Mark feels they can still win with the talent they have, while the coaching staff feels they can't.

and then it hit me, the root of the problem. our BIGGEST problem right now.

Ginebra doesn't know who they are anymore. they have lost their identity.

so you may shrug at that, and may find that ludicrous, saying "what has identity have anything to do with it?" and i answer "everything".

Ginebra doesn't play with fire and with passion anymore because it serves no purpose. why? how can they have a purpose when they don't even know who or what they are? a pen is a pen because it's purpose is as a writing implement. but this team? no one knows what they are now.

are they a defensive team? are they in retooling mode? are they going to rebuild? are they an offensive run and gun team? is Mark still their leader? is Jay Jay still the PG? is this still the Fast and Furious's team? can they still play at a high level? can Menk ever be fully healthy? are we now transitioning to the JC-KG-Labagala-J-Will-Jimbo era?

in short, Ginebra is in limbo right now, they have no idea what they are and what they want. and it shows on the floor. they are disjointed, disgruntled and just disgraced. when they are on the floor they have no clue what to do - do they run a play, do they let MC shoot, does Jay Jay take a three, is JC supposed to play inside or shoot form three? what? no effing clue.

no identity. no purpose. no wins.

three perspectives actually define this teams identity - the players, the coaches and the management. the management however is just a by product of the two so really two perspectives form the team, with the third just acting on what the two perceive the team to be.

the players (namely Mark and Jay Jay to some extent) feel that they can still compete at this level. Mark feels that this is still his and Jay Jay's team. he feels that if given the chance, this ragtag group of vets can still win and dominate. so the players feel this is still the run and gun Ginebra of old, that this is still a team to reckon with IF they are just given the minutes (fun fact: no Ginebra players plays 30 minutes a game, Enrico plays the most minutes at 27 minutes, Willy Wilson is at 25, MC is at 24, Jay Jay at 22 minutes a game). for Mark and company, the team just needs to RETOOL, give them minutes and give them confidence.

the coaching staff however feels differently. they FEEL it is now time to REBUILD. they refused to acknowledge that MC and JayJay are responsible for the wins, citing "luck" and "breaks" as keys to the wins. they give minutes to the young guns and booted the vets off the starting lineup. the coaching staff feels the opposite of what Mark Caguioa feels - that they're better off with the young guns than sticking with the vets.

so clearly, the team is fractured from within. coaching staff is going one way, Mark and company goes the other, and it's pulling the team apart. add to that the fact that there is also tension among the players. J-Wilson, Labagala, and Jimbo are eating away at the minutes of MC and JJ and both vets are looking over their shoulders now, threatened by the rise of these new kids on the block.

the coaching staff cannot go on a full on rebuilding mode and risk alienating the fanbase, or the vets, so they HAVE to give the vets minutes as well as the young guns. hence the players seeing their minutes go on a roller coaster ridee. and you know the result - disjointed, disgruntled and ultimately disgraced.

so what you have here now is a cocktail of tension, mixed with resentment, with a dash of inner turmoil. all ingredients that further drive a wedge between our teams collective psyche, further fracturing it's sense of what or who it is.

who are we? do we rebuild? do we retool?

so where does management, the third component, fit in all of this? management acts only when the two sides are united. it's the component that realizes what the two sides have envisioned it to be. so unless the coaches and the players come to an understanding, or come to a united collective thought about who or what they are, management is content to sit on the sidelines and wait.

coaching and players are still not united, but they are united in one thing - a need for change. so after mark's rumblings, which comes way after the rumblings of the coaching staff, management decided to move, hence we hear all this talk about a trade coming.

(some notes: when it was clear that Mark and Jay Jay were going to be the cornerstones of the team, Ginebra went and got Menk, then later on flipped some assets for Seigle, Rodney Santos, then drafted Adducul. the result was a title. in 2006, when Menk kept getting sidelined, we flipped again some assets and got us Reavis, Hatfield and Billy Mamaril. when Rodney decided to hang his sneakers, we got Tubid, and then Abarrientos when Jay Jay needed a back up. result? a title. all along, management moves when it was clear for them what moves needed to be made and for as long as the coaching staff and players are in union as to who or what they are. and back then, it was clear - this was Mark's and Jay Jay's team, when you have your cornerstones, everything falls into place.)

so now we are in this position. the team is in disarray because both camps cannot come to agree as to who or what kind of team they are. Mark feels they just need to retool, coaching staff feels they have to rebuild, and management just sits by and waits until both camps settle down.

so ano ba talaga? do we retool or do we rebuild? is this still Mark's team or do the young guns need to step up?

i also don't know. all i know is, they better figure this out before it's too late.

Source: Forumer sa PH >>> razerman


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Re: What's wrong with Ginebra... PART 2!

Post by MR. FAST on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:46 am

Nice article P're.

IMHO, the identity and the passion, though is not the same as before, are not totally lost. But I have to agree with the general context of what Pareng Razerman was trying to say. They are confused. Caguioa feels that it's still "his team". And he has a point. To date, he just averages 24-minutes a game yet he is still the leading scorer averaging 15-markers. On the other hand, the coaching staff feels that the young guys should step-up now, giving them more minutes.

Wally and Jose...este Jong and Siot claim that Mark and Jayjay then, just like the young guns now, were given the same opportunity to prove themselves. But looking back on Lee's article, I totally agree that they are totally different situations. First, Caguioa immediately made an impact that he'll be the franchise player. Second, Meneses and Limpot were slacking down, and Bal had knee problems. And everytime they play lackluster ball, the young guns namely Caguioa, Helterbrand, and Magtulis stepped-up. Ginebra unexpectedly entered the 2001 AFC Finals in that set-up.

This is not the case right now. Caguioa obviously still has it. Helterbrand, despite contemplating about retirement has proven that he's still at it. Stressing out that the wins brought by the heroics of Mark and Jayjay are merely luck is...horseshite. Yes there is luck behind it. But again as Lee implied in her article, Mark and Jayjay worked hard to be lucky. They pushed themselves towards the position to be lucky.

Ok, in the first game against RoS, the young guns led the team to a furious rally and they almost stole the win. But what happened after that? Who led the team on those three wins? Mark and Jayjay. Why have they changed the set-up when it's working? Why fix something that is not broken?

But then again, both the coaching staff and the veterans have good intentions for the team. Everybody wants to win. Siot, Jong, Mark, Jayjay, Eric - despite the tension, they obviously have the same objective. And that is to MAXIMIZE everything they've got. Caguioa wants to give it all and capitalize on what's left in him, the coaches wanted to maximize the use of the youngsters.

In fairness to the coaches, I'd say they are sending a message to the management that "This is what happens to our team when our cornerstones hang their jerseys. So you're just out there watch us lose?"

I'd say the coaches and the players still has the passion. The tension between them is there because of the passion. How about the big bosses? Well, this is what I say: When those needed trades and transactions materialize, the CONFUSION will be thrown outside the window.

And the identity of this team will be whole again.

(Some minor clarifications on your side notes P're: Ginebra drafted Adducul first (2003) before they traded for Rodney Santos and Andy Seigle (2004) in exchange of Noynoy Falcasantos in a three-way-deal between BGK, Purefoods, and SLR. I'm not sure if Chester Tolomia was included in that same package but Tolomia surely played for SLR later on. Falcasantos was supposedly a "balikbayan" to SLR but I can't remember seeing him play for the Realtors anew after his brief stint with Ginebra. Looking back to the 2003 draft, BGK also acquired Sunday Salvacion and activated long-time practice player/unsigned draftee Aris Dimaunahan. On the acquisition of Ronald Tubid, Rodney was just in the injured list. Rodney and Tubid in fact played together and complemented well during the 2007 Fiesta when Mark and Jayjay were loaned to the National Team. Perhaps because of Rodney's recurring injuries, they've decided to acquire Junthy Valenzuela. Still, Rodney came back and played for Ginebra before he was released to Coca-Cola mid-season of 2008-09.)

Credits to prodidyey ng PH


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Re: What's wrong with Ginebra... PART 2!

Post by rentboy on Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:21 pm

Thanks Fasty. Nice read...

Tama nman c Razerman & prodidyey, sna nga masolve na ng BGK ang problema sa team.


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Re: What's wrong with Ginebra... PART 2!

Post by geraldasakura on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Well said! Tama naman sila Pro and Razerman... The Boss have their passion in this team? hmmm.. are they still believe?


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